It's already been partially implemented in the form of Badges & Reward gear, and this topic has sort of been done to death anyway, but could Loot distribution as described below work? Would it be feasible?
Forget backpacks to carry around gear. Give us a "wardrobe" with multiple outfit slots. Diablo II did this to a small degree in allowing you to "equip" two sets of weapons, i.e., two 1-handed weapons and one 2-handed weapon, that you could switch between with a single key press. Now change this up and allow a character to equip multiple sets of armor, i.e, a Healer could carry DPS gear AND Healing gear (although +Spell Power is negating this to some degree), a Warrior could carry Tank Gear and DPS gear, a Pally could carry Healing gear, Tank gear, AND DPS gear, etc. All kept in their multiple Wardrobe Tabs, all ready to be switched in & out at the press of a button. We can switch weapons mid-fight, so why not allow us to change armor as well?
Tank goes down, the DPS Pally switches gear and takes his place, while if the Healer gets taken out, the DPS Druid can switch gear and take over. If a fight requires both a Tank and an Off-Tank, when the Off-Tank's target goes down he can switch gear and help out with DPS, or vice versa.
"OMG!" You say. "Are you crazy? We spend enough time Raiding for our gear as it is, and sometimes we never get our full set before the Guild advances. And you're advocating something like this? Forget you!"
Hold on a second. Hear me out. That's where the change to Loot Distribution kicks in. If you've got a 20-man Raid then defeating a Raid Boss takes a coordinated effort by all 20 of you. Sure, maybe one or two of you are tapping 1-2-1-2-1-2 while watching NCIS or House or Simpsons' reruns, but in most cases you will not bring the Boss down unless everyone is pitching in and helping out. So, why not reward everyone who's there when the Boss goes down?
If you help defeat the Boss you get rewarded, it's that simple.
If you're part of a raid that defeats a Boss you get presented with your own personal Loot screen with a choice of 3-4 randomly chosen, class-specific items. They might be weapons or armor or accessories (rings, necklaces, etc) but they'll be specific to your class and you don't have to spend DKP for them, or /roll, or watch the Night Elf ninja your rifle because "Agi & AP? Rogue-weapon! LOL!"
Being random loot it's possible that if you run the Instance multiple times, or there's multiple Bosses, that you may be presented with items you already have, but that's just the luck of the roll (or the unluck as the case may be). But at least you wouldn't spend hours during the week preparing for the Raid, farming Mats, making Pots, etc, then spend a couple of hours on Raid night downing the Bosses only to see all the Loot go to everyone else. Of course you're happy for your Guildmates, but man it sucks to put in all that time during the week only to turn up on Raid night and not a single Drop goes your way. This would change that.
Welfare Epics? Hardly. You were there, you contributed, you get rewarded. How is that Welfare? Are they Welfare Epics when your new Guildmates run low level Raids on off-nights to gear you up? You may not be contributing as much DPS as everyone else, and just maybe they could do this without you, but you're still contributing, you're still present when the Boss goes down, so you still get rewarded.
Of course being Raids and to avoid the system being exploited Raid Lockouts would need to be implemented with the Instances being reset & unlocked every Sunday night/Monday morning (or following routine maintenance if it's a regular, weekly occurrence), so there would be no constant rerunning of an Instance to Gear everyone up. If your Guild beats the Instance and defeats all the Bosses then SOP means you wait a week before you can go back for more Gear. And if your Guild is still getting their act together and you spend 3 hours downing just one Boss? At least everyone will have something to show for it, so next time the run might go a little smoother because now everyone is a little more powerful, instead of just a couple of players getting upgrades.
Would this work? Would this make Raiding a little more enjoyable? Or would it still foster a forum war between the hardcore Raiders and the perceived Welfare-Epic recipients? Some people just need something to complain about or someone to pick on or they're not happy. There's no pleasing everyone, so why not try to please as many people as possible?
Showing posts with label Warhammer. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Warhammer. Show all posts
Tuesday, August 04, 2009
Friday, January 30, 2009
PSA
I'd just like to take this opportunity to say...
OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!
Are you still here? Whadda ya think yer doing?
Get over to their website, NOW!
This is insane. They're releasing this on not just the PC & XBox, but the PSP and the DS! I can't imagine trying to play it on the DS...actually I can, but Damn! When you've got a game like this, you want it on at least a 19" screen.
Damn. Guess I'll be buying two copies of Diablo 3 and two copies of Bloodbowl this year...or next year :P
OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!
Are you still here? Whadda ya think yer doing?
Get over to their website, NOW!
This is insane. They're releasing this on not just the PC & XBox, but the PSP and the DS! I can't imagine trying to play it on the DS...actually I can, but Damn! When you've got a game like this, you want it on at least a 19" screen.
Damn. Guess I'll be buying two copies of Diablo 3 and two copies of Bloodbowl this year...or next year :P
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
What WAR could have been...
but would it have been better?
Mythic could have made WAR a squad-based (sort of) game, not unlike the real, table-top Warhammer game. I know, I know. GW's stable of table-top games are almost all Army-based games (as opposed to squads), but that would make you a General and WAR an RTS and that's already been done, in countless incarnations (some good, some bad). Being an MMO, WAR needed to be a little more personal, but to capture that true GW feeling while also making WAR stand out as an MMO, WAR could have been a squad-based game, instead of the individual-based MMO it currently is.
Like all MMOs, to start with you'd create your Avatar, but then you'd get to create your squad, based on the avatar you chose.
If you played as a Black Orc, Orc Shaman, etc, your squad could consist of 4 Orc grunts, or up to 9 Goblins. Your choice.
Want to join Chaos? Then you'll have several Servants of Chaos at your command, maybe Northmen or Cultists.
Join the Empire, and depending on your Class you'd get several Knights or a squad of soldiers at your disposal.
And so on.
You wouldn't be able to customize too much about your squad, because units would die and get replaced when you get back to town and "repair". So it wouldn't be like creating 10 different characters to serve under you. Changing "hair color", for example, would change everyone's hair to within a shade or two of the selected color. Choosing a Gaulish-style mustache would give everyone a long, flowing mustache. Hired reinforcements would automatically (magic, perhaps? ;) resemble your current troops, in order to maintain uniformity. The character over whose appearance you'd have the most control, would naturally be your own Avatar.
Game play would still be remarkably similar to current WAR, where you go out, get Quests, do Scenarios, etc, but instead of fighting by yourself, or grouping up with others, you'd have a Squad at your command, led by your Avatar, and now you'd do battle with more than just one Mob at a time.
A typical battle, in this example with you as a Black Orc leading a squad of Goblins, could feasibly go like this:
You approach your opponents, half a dozen Grudgebringers, and you slowly move up until you're within bow range. Then you give the order to Open Fire.
Your Goblins draw their Bows and 8 arrows soar through the air before arcing gracefully down towards the squad of Dwarves. One of your Goblins looks a little embarrassed as he holds up a bow with a broken string.
A couple of the arrows strike the ground around the Dwarves but most find their mark and the stunned Dwarves yelp in pain. Then they turn towards your squad and begin charging your position.
Your Goblins draw their Bows and loose another flight of arrows. The thud and grunt as arrows embed themselves in Dwarven flesh is particularly satisfying to you, but even more so is seeing two of the Stunties fall to the ground with several red & black-fletched arrows sticking out of their bodies. (Red & Black being the predominant colors in the heraldry you've chosen for your troops.)
Not only undeterred but spurred on by the death of the comrades, the four remaining Dwarves roar a battle cry and charge onwards.
With no time left for another volley of arrows you pick a target and hit your own Charge hotkey, which by default orders your goblin troops to Attack!
With a gutteral roar and much high pitched squealing (not unlike finger nails being drawn down a blackboard or wet fingers across a pane of glass) you and your squad of goblins rush forward, meeting the Stunties charge head on.
And now the game more closely resembles combat in a traditional MMO, with, perhaps, one big exception. You're not going to be jumping and spinning around like you see Rogues and Elves doing WoW's PvP. And you'll learn very quickly not to do this. Oh, yes. You will learn.
You see when you walk around the land, you're not just in control of your Avatar; you're the leader of your squad, they echo your own movements. You move forward, they move forward. You back up, they retreat. And so on.
So if you're fighting, and you try to run through your opponent or leap around them like a hyperactive flea on Red Bull, your squad is going to try to follow your lead. Inspiring Chaos among your troops is good if you worship Khorne, it's not so good when you're leading easily confused goblins.
"'ere! What's da boss up to?"
"I dunno! He's leapin' about like he's a flamin' Elf!"
"Ya fink 'e wants us ta do that, too?"
"We'd better! Ya 'member what 'appened last time we didn't do what 'e said?"
"Oi, yer right! Come on, lads! Make wif da jumpin'!"
Suddenly your squad of Goblins break combat, stop attacking, and start leaping around like they're also flamin' Elves. Because that's, essentially, the command you've just given them.
The Dwarves, however, do no such thing. They quickly carve up your leaping Goblins, who make no attempt to parry, block or defend themselves (Sorry, Boss! Too busy jumpin'!"), and now it's you versus four very angry Dwarves. You were not a good role model for your troops, you just got them killed. If it's any consolation, you've probably just gotten yourself killed, too.
However, if you don't leap all over the place, and instead use your combat skills to fight strategically and successfully, you'll find your goblins are buoyed by the prowess of their fearsome Black Orc Leader. Their morale will increase, and they'll hit a little harder, doing a little more damage. Perhaps they'll parry or block more often, and when one or two of their mates fall to the flashing hammers & axes wielded by the Stunties, they won't mind so much, because you're such a great leader they're more than happy to die for you. Well, maybe "happy to die" is not entirely accurate, but it serves its purpose.
Now had you not been fighting so well, but instead were losing combat to your own Dwarven opponent, your Goblins would be dismayed at the pathetic skills displayed by their leader. As the Dwarves proved themselves to be more than worthy opponents, your Goblins' morale would have dropped. They might parry less often, their attacks would do less damage, and perhaps the Stunties would step it up and start hitting harder themselves. If you think that means you're losing the battle, you're right.
A Rallying cry might help here, or a Challenging Roar to demoralize, even Stun your opponents. If you're losing, there would be ways to rally your troops and perhaps turn the tide of battle back in your favor. While this is squad based combat, the success of your squad depends on you being a successful, inspiring leader, doing the right thing at the right time, and not jumping all over the place like you're a flamin' Elf.
Now picture you teaming up with several other players, each in control of their own squad, in pitched battles consisting of, quite possibly, hundreds of units. Hmm, that's probably why Mythic didn't go this route. We're talking Lag Central. If we wanted a game that played like this to look as good as it should, you'd probably need cutting edge machines just to play it, unless you want the graphics to take a huge hit.
Ahh well, I guess it'll just have to remain a pipe dream...unless, of course, someone thinks they can really do this. So if you can and you want to, go for it. You don't have my funding, but you do have my blessing to turn my dreams into your reality :)
*EDIT* to respond to Joseph's comment, because this was becoming a FHUGE comment of my own ;)
Joseph, it seems like what you're saying is your squad members' AI needs to actually be IAI, as in Intuitively Artificially Intelligent, instead of today's standard AI, being (usually) Atrociously Incompetent.
I would agree with you. If controlling the squad requires too much micro-management, this theoretical game would fall flat on its face (or needs to be developed as a Turn-based game, which can be fun but is not quite what we're looking for here), however, if your squad could coordinate their actions a little better, based on what you're trying to do with your own Avatar...
I'd like to use WoW's Hunter class as an example here, expanding the Pet from a single entity into several entities, which all obey the same command from you...except WoW's Hunter is notoriously known as the Huntard and for very good reason. Part of the problem is the Player, but part of the problem is also the horribly scripted AI of the Pet.
* * *
PET: "You want me to attack the Mob in front of us? Okay! I'll just run down these stairs behind us, out this door, then circle back around through three rooms to come up behind the Mob. As a bonus, I'll even aggro every Mob I find on the way."
Hunter . o O (Where'd my Pet go?)
30 seconds later.
Hunter . o O (Aah, there he is.)
Party: "WTF? Where'd the Adds come from?"
Hunter . o O (Uh oh.)
* * *
That's why I say the Squad would need to take orders from you in a more intuitive fashion (with intelligent pathing and AI).
When you attack from ranged (with a Bow, Fireball spell, etc), your squad would likewise use any Ranged Attacks they may have against the same target (or units of the same squad you're targeting). Of course if you're a Shaman in Melee using what could be considered a Ranged attack, such as a Chain Lightning spell, your squad would need to intuitively know, "I'm in Melee. I shouldn't try to use my Ranged attack just because Da Boss is."
So when you Charge into Melee, your Squad should intuitively recognize you're closing with your enemy and likewise attempt to do the same, to the same enemy/squad, without anyone peeling off to dry hump a nearby cargo ship. (Thanks to Joseph for that line ;)
The less micromanaging of your squad, the better their IAI, and the more it controls like a single-player MMO-RPG where you can almost forget about your squad because they'll intuitively do what you're wanting them to, the better this game would be.
*Last Edit* I just reminded myself of one of (IMO) the best wrestling video games, to date. Oddly enough, from yesteryear on the N64, it's WCW/nWo Revenge.
I could play this game for hours on end, and often had, and one day even after logging hundreds of in-game hours playing it, something happened which totally blew my mind.
My opponent had gained the upper hand, slammed me to the mat, then climbed up on the top turnbuckle. But just as he got to the top and was getting ready to launch himself through the air to come crashing down on me, my wrestler recovered and got to his feet.
Without thinking, literally acting on instinct, I ran to the corner and hit the grapple button...and my wrestler did exactly what I wanted him to.
He reached up, grabbed his opponent, and body slammed him off the top turnbuckle.
Just to make this clear, in all the time I'd played Revenge, and I'm literally talking hundreds of hours, possibly thousands (don't scoff, just check your /played time in WoW...not you, Tesh :P) in all that time I'd never once seen this move before. I'd never done it to anyone, never had it done to me; I didn't even know it existed.
Up until this point turnbuckle moves had always involved beat downs on a wrestler slammed into the corner, or a high risk, high flying move from the top rope that could help you win or cost you the match.
Running to the corner and pressing the grapple button was a purely intuitive move on my part.
I knew what I wanted my wrestler to do. I'd never seen him do it before, I didn't know if he'd do it or not, in fact whether or not he would do what I was asking never entered my mind. But he did. He did exactly what I was expecting him to do.
That's how much work went into the AI and script of a game written over 10 years ago. If they were able to program so much into a 64-bit cartridge-based game 10 years ago, there's absolutely no excuse for poor AI coding these days, other than laziness, and that's not an acceptable excuse.
Mythic could have made WAR a squad-based (sort of) game, not unlike the real, table-top Warhammer game. I know, I know. GW's stable of table-top games are almost all Army-based games (as opposed to squads), but that would make you a General and WAR an RTS and that's already been done, in countless incarnations (some good, some bad). Being an MMO, WAR needed to be a little more personal, but to capture that true GW feeling while also making WAR stand out as an MMO, WAR could have been a squad-based game, instead of the individual-based MMO it currently is.
Like all MMOs, to start with you'd create your Avatar, but then you'd get to create your squad, based on the avatar you chose.
If you played as a Black Orc, Orc Shaman, etc, your squad could consist of 4 Orc grunts, or up to 9 Goblins. Your choice.
Want to join Chaos? Then you'll have several Servants of Chaos at your command, maybe Northmen or Cultists.
Join the Empire, and depending on your Class you'd get several Knights or a squad of soldiers at your disposal.
And so on.
You wouldn't be able to customize too much about your squad, because units would die and get replaced when you get back to town and "repair". So it wouldn't be like creating 10 different characters to serve under you. Changing "hair color", for example, would change everyone's hair to within a shade or two of the selected color. Choosing a Gaulish-style mustache would give everyone a long, flowing mustache. Hired reinforcements would automatically (magic, perhaps? ;) resemble your current troops, in order to maintain uniformity. The character over whose appearance you'd have the most control, would naturally be your own Avatar.
Game play would still be remarkably similar to current WAR, where you go out, get Quests, do Scenarios, etc, but instead of fighting by yourself, or grouping up with others, you'd have a Squad at your command, led by your Avatar, and now you'd do battle with more than just one Mob at a time.
A typical battle, in this example with you as a Black Orc leading a squad of Goblins, could feasibly go like this:
You approach your opponents, half a dozen Grudgebringers, and you slowly move up until you're within bow range. Then you give the order to Open Fire.
Your Goblins draw their Bows and 8 arrows soar through the air before arcing gracefully down towards the squad of Dwarves. One of your Goblins looks a little embarrassed as he holds up a bow with a broken string.
A couple of the arrows strike the ground around the Dwarves but most find their mark and the stunned Dwarves yelp in pain. Then they turn towards your squad and begin charging your position.
Your Goblins draw their Bows and loose another flight of arrows. The thud and grunt as arrows embed themselves in Dwarven flesh is particularly satisfying to you, but even more so is seeing two of the Stunties fall to the ground with several red & black-fletched arrows sticking out of their bodies. (Red & Black being the predominant colors in the heraldry you've chosen for your troops.)
Not only undeterred but spurred on by the death of the comrades, the four remaining Dwarves roar a battle cry and charge onwards.
With no time left for another volley of arrows you pick a target and hit your own Charge hotkey, which by default orders your goblin troops to Attack!
With a gutteral roar and much high pitched squealing (not unlike finger nails being drawn down a blackboard or wet fingers across a pane of glass) you and your squad of goblins rush forward, meeting the Stunties charge head on.
And now the game more closely resembles combat in a traditional MMO, with, perhaps, one big exception. You're not going to be jumping and spinning around like you see Rogues and Elves doing WoW's PvP. And you'll learn very quickly not to do this. Oh, yes. You will learn.
You see when you walk around the land, you're not just in control of your Avatar; you're the leader of your squad, they echo your own movements. You move forward, they move forward. You back up, they retreat. And so on.
So if you're fighting, and you try to run through your opponent or leap around them like a hyperactive flea on Red Bull, your squad is going to try to follow your lead. Inspiring Chaos among your troops is good if you worship Khorne, it's not so good when you're leading easily confused goblins.
"'ere! What's da boss up to?"
"I dunno! He's leapin' about like he's a flamin' Elf!"
"Ya fink 'e wants us ta do that, too?"
"We'd better! Ya 'member what 'appened last time we didn't do what 'e said?"
"Oi, yer right! Come on, lads! Make wif da jumpin'!"
Suddenly your squad of Goblins break combat, stop attacking, and start leaping around like they're also flamin' Elves. Because that's, essentially, the command you've just given them.
The Dwarves, however, do no such thing. They quickly carve up your leaping Goblins, who make no attempt to parry, block or defend themselves (Sorry, Boss! Too busy jumpin'!"), and now it's you versus four very angry Dwarves. You were not a good role model for your troops, you just got them killed. If it's any consolation, you've probably just gotten yourself killed, too.
However, if you don't leap all over the place, and instead use your combat skills to fight strategically and successfully, you'll find your goblins are buoyed by the prowess of their fearsome Black Orc Leader. Their morale will increase, and they'll hit a little harder, doing a little more damage. Perhaps they'll parry or block more often, and when one or two of their mates fall to the flashing hammers & axes wielded by the Stunties, they won't mind so much, because you're such a great leader they're more than happy to die for you. Well, maybe "happy to die" is not entirely accurate, but it serves its purpose.
Now had you not been fighting so well, but instead were losing combat to your own Dwarven opponent, your Goblins would be dismayed at the pathetic skills displayed by their leader. As the Dwarves proved themselves to be more than worthy opponents, your Goblins' morale would have dropped. They might parry less often, their attacks would do less damage, and perhaps the Stunties would step it up and start hitting harder themselves. If you think that means you're losing the battle, you're right.
A Rallying cry might help here, or a Challenging Roar to demoralize, even Stun your opponents. If you're losing, there would be ways to rally your troops and perhaps turn the tide of battle back in your favor. While this is squad based combat, the success of your squad depends on you being a successful, inspiring leader, doing the right thing at the right time, and not jumping all over the place like you're a flamin' Elf.
Now picture you teaming up with several other players, each in control of their own squad, in pitched battles consisting of, quite possibly, hundreds of units. Hmm, that's probably why Mythic didn't go this route. We're talking Lag Central. If we wanted a game that played like this to look as good as it should, you'd probably need cutting edge machines just to play it, unless you want the graphics to take a huge hit.
Ahh well, I guess it'll just have to remain a pipe dream...unless, of course, someone thinks they can really do this. So if you can and you want to, go for it. You don't have my funding, but you do have my blessing to turn my dreams into your reality :)
*EDIT* to respond to Joseph's comment, because this was becoming a FHUGE comment of my own ;)
Joseph, it seems like what you're saying is your squad members' AI needs to actually be IAI, as in Intuitively Artificially Intelligent, instead of today's standard AI, being (usually) Atrociously Incompetent.
I would agree with you. If controlling the squad requires too much micro-management, this theoretical game would fall flat on its face (or needs to be developed as a Turn-based game, which can be fun but is not quite what we're looking for here), however, if your squad could coordinate their actions a little better, based on what you're trying to do with your own Avatar...
I'd like to use WoW's Hunter class as an example here, expanding the Pet from a single entity into several entities, which all obey the same command from you...except WoW's Hunter is notoriously known as the Huntard and for very good reason. Part of the problem is the Player, but part of the problem is also the horribly scripted AI of the Pet.
* * *
PET: "You want me to attack the Mob in front of us? Okay! I'll just run down these stairs behind us, out this door, then circle back around through three rooms to come up behind the Mob. As a bonus, I'll even aggro every Mob I find on the way."
Hunter . o O (Where'd my Pet go?)
30 seconds later.
Hunter . o O (Aah, there he is.)
Party: "WTF? Where'd the Adds come from?"
Hunter . o O (Uh oh.)
* * *
That's why I say the Squad would need to take orders from you in a more intuitive fashion (with intelligent pathing and AI).
When you attack from ranged (with a Bow, Fireball spell, etc), your squad would likewise use any Ranged Attacks they may have against the same target (or units of the same squad you're targeting). Of course if you're a Shaman in Melee using what could be considered a Ranged attack, such as a Chain Lightning spell, your squad would need to intuitively know, "I'm in Melee. I shouldn't try to use my Ranged attack just because Da Boss is."
So when you Charge into Melee, your Squad should intuitively recognize you're closing with your enemy and likewise attempt to do the same, to the same enemy/squad, without anyone peeling off to dry hump a nearby cargo ship. (Thanks to Joseph for that line ;)
The less micromanaging of your squad, the better their IAI, and the more it controls like a single-player MMO-RPG where you can almost forget about your squad because they'll intuitively do what you're wanting them to, the better this game would be.
*Last Edit* I just reminded myself of one of (IMO) the best wrestling video games, to date. Oddly enough, from yesteryear on the N64, it's WCW/nWo Revenge.
I could play this game for hours on end, and often had, and one day even after logging hundreds of in-game hours playing it, something happened which totally blew my mind.
My opponent had gained the upper hand, slammed me to the mat, then climbed up on the top turnbuckle. But just as he got to the top and was getting ready to launch himself through the air to come crashing down on me, my wrestler recovered and got to his feet.
Without thinking, literally acting on instinct, I ran to the corner and hit the grapple button...and my wrestler did exactly what I wanted him to.
He reached up, grabbed his opponent, and body slammed him off the top turnbuckle.
Just to make this clear, in all the time I'd played Revenge, and I'm literally talking hundreds of hours, possibly thousands (don't scoff, just check your /played time in WoW...not you, Tesh :P) in all that time I'd never once seen this move before. I'd never done it to anyone, never had it done to me; I didn't even know it existed.
Up until this point turnbuckle moves had always involved beat downs on a wrestler slammed into the corner, or a high risk, high flying move from the top rope that could help you win or cost you the match.
Running to the corner and pressing the grapple button was a purely intuitive move on my part.
I knew what I wanted my wrestler to do. I'd never seen him do it before, I didn't know if he'd do it or not, in fact whether or not he would do what I was asking never entered my mind. But he did. He did exactly what I was expecting him to do.
That's how much work went into the AI and script of a game written over 10 years ago. If they were able to program so much into a 64-bit cartridge-based game 10 years ago, there's absolutely no excuse for poor AI coding these days, other than laziness, and that's not an acceptable excuse.
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